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Interview in Nagoya 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　Dec 2001 　　　　　　　　　　　with Ma Antar Sampatti THE TRANSMISSION OF LIGHT 　　　　- A science for transformation -

Giri(G)	We are in Nagoya, in the cafe of the University. I am participating in your group called the “Art of Awakening” This is a process that lasts for 30 days, spread out over more than two months. As a participant, I feel so much light has come into my unconscious. Now I feel so light and positive since I have been in the group. I feel this process is very precious and it is revealing the secrets of existence, the truth, the real meaning of life. And I feel it is very miraculous, and I see that it gives so much support to people, especially to seekers. So I would like to introduce this work to more people. That’s why I want to have this interview with you, Sampatti. Now some questions. How do you feel about this group, and what is going on with Japanese people?
Sampatti(S)	The group is really beautiful, isn’t it? I am very, very happy about it. And, in fact , the group that is happening now is the first one of its kind. I have been working in Germany with the frequencies of light , but that was a very different kind of group, because in this group we are combining the transmission of light with Aura Soma. I feel Japanese people are very receptive, very, very receptive to energy. That is a big difference from working with people in the West.
G	Really?
S	Yes. When Japanese people hold a crystal, they can read it very easily. With Western people this is quite rare. So it makes a big difference in how we can work. It makes it much easier for the transmission to happen. On the other hand people in the West find much easier to express what they find. The transmission is happening very beautifully and easily in Japan.
G	But you also had a good time with Western people?
S	Very much! I am just talking about the differences, since you asked me how I feel about working with Japanese people. It works here and it works there, just it is different.
G	Oh, nice! So, it is something brand new. And because it is a very new system nobody knows about it yet. So, please explain this system called “the transmission of light” and also please tell something about how it came to you.
S	It came to me after Osho had left the body and I was very much missing the light nourishment which I had received and which all of us had received who were there while he was in the body. I had a lot of pain during that time about not knowing where my path continues. I was still so thirsty and did not feel that I had received everything I needed to blossom into my real being. I was very desperate and finally decided to go into a meditation retreat all by myself and I went into retreat for three months.
G	What year was that?
S	I don’t really remember, about six or seven years ago. Now I remember it was January, probably 1994. I spent all day long in meditation, going into different kinds of meditation techniques, just trying to find a breakthrough. One day it happened that all of a sudden I got up from a meditation and I started painting. And that was somehow the very beginning of the evolution of this work.
G	I want to ask you if this is connected with the cards you painted.
S	Yes, the first card I painted was the mystery card. And during this time I received insight into the power of invocation, that if you really open yourself to existence, it answers! And if you can be honest about your own needs an express them to life, life showers on you. So somehow my own need for spiritual nourishment opened the door for me to find the “transmission of light”. And the frequencies themselves were revealed one by one; each frequency came in its own time.
G	So you asked existence for something you needed and it came to you?
S	First I said: I need help! I NEED HELP! I don’t know how to go on. And I said it in words and in silence, in tears and in gratitude. I spoke to existence with the totality of my being. And then I found some energy around me and I did not know what it was. I just knew it was connected to my asking for help. And then it would be around me for many days until I got to know it and until I recognized it. The moment I recognized it, I could name it and direct it into a crystal.
G	Did it take some time?
S	It took about five years.
G	I mean, from the time you first asked for help until it came?
S	Yes, it took a long time having to be in that gap, and really feeling the need and really FEELING the pain of not being in touch with something vital….
G	So, first you asked for help and then you received a particular frequency. Which frequency did you receive first?
S	Highest Protection.
G	And next? How did it come? How did you ask?
S	My own transmission is so connected with Osho, because I MISSED HIM SO MUCH. I received the Highest Protection frequency first, but it was not ALL of what I was missing. I was still thirsty. There was much more. So all of these frequencies are somehow an answer to what I was missing after Osho had gone from the body. And they came one by one.
G	So somehow you asked for everything which you missed. So you somehow specialized what you were missing?
S	No, not at all. I was just FEELING the missing.
G	And you did not know what you wanted to get?
S	No.
G	Still you continued asking for support, for help?
S	Yes.
G	Vaguely, or…?
S	That vacuum in me called it. And then it came, and then I recognized what it was and it fell into a place inside me and nourished that place.
G	And something went into your heart, something into your second chakra… like that?
S	Yes, but before that I had to feel the pain of not having it in my system. So these frequencies we now work with are somehow the fruits of my tears. At first I thought it was only for me. My own healing was happening. And only much later I realized that in fact we all share these frequencies. They can be shared. It is not just a personal healing story.
G	Tell me about how it was for you, it was all very unknown, very new when you were still receiving the frequencies without knowing,…. maybe you did not know what to do with these things and what was happening?
S	Yes, at one time I was very insecure and vulnerable with it. I did not talk to anybody about it, because I was really not sure whether I was on a valid path, or whether I was getting a bit strange. But my inner voice kept telling me “everything is fine”, and in addition to that I was feeling so nourished. Later I shared the frequencies with my friends, and they also felt nourished. But before that there was a time I was feeling much shaken, and in that time Highest Protection was very important for me.
G	Now I also tell how I experience Highest Protection. a few days ago I had a strong experience. I was with my family,there I felt very much jadged by mom.Usualy in this kind of situation I close myself & protect myself.And maybe for a while not talking with her at all. In that time I had my Highest Protection in my hand. I was watching my anger which was coming.and there was havitual energy wanting to identify with this anger in my system,wanting to scream.or to express something. But nothing happened.I was just watching,anger and habitual enegy to identify with it.and there was a gap between anger and havitual desire to identify with it. and I was feeling strange becouse I was not inflenced by emotions at all. emotions and myself was so separated. I was just watching.I was just a watcher. There was a space in me.as osho calls “untouched”.the space nothing ever never touched,there I was a watcher. It was amazingly beautiful experience for me. Higest Protection really protect our inner space. I am also giving body work sessions. My clients are quite happy with Transmission of Light and Highest Protection and it is very much miraculous.
S	It is, isn’t it? It makes us free so quickly of everything that is not helpful to us. Just washes it out until it is gone.
G	There are so many frequencies that I really did not experience yet which is which and what are the qualities of each one, yet somehow I am really looking forward to knowing all of them and to getting them all. I want to pass them on to my clients, to share this with people.
S	Yes, I think that to really experience the frequencies fully, it would be good to spend time with each one, like 21 days each.
G	How did you do it?
S	To me they came one by one, so I had a long time with each frequency before the next one was born. I was carrying around the crystal (which was holding the frequency) all the time. I meditated with it, even slept with it
G	Maybe you can explain about the three circles now and how they came to you?
S	In the “transmission of light” we work with the “crystal field of Awakening”. It consists of crystals that are energized and come together as an energy field. We have three circles of frequency one within each other. The outer circle consists of 21 frequencies. They are the color frequencies. I call this outer circle the “Circle of Light”. Each of these 21 frequencies has a different color and a different message. The circle of light is about our body/mind system. Each frequency heals in such a way that it gives back to us the real information of that particular color. For instance, we have magenta. Each of us has in our body and in our mind the frequency of magenta. But maybe it became distorted-- or we never became aware of it in the first place. The process of distortion happens through traumatic experiences or through our conditioning. What the frequencies of light do is they remind us and make us aware of the REAL magenta. What is magenta really? What does it mean in our lives? It means being able to turn within. It means to be able to give birth to ourselves. It means to value the seed of our own buddhahood. It means nourishing the right soil for our growth. The moment, we realize what magenta really means for us, the false is gone, If we recognize all the different color energies in our body/mind system, we come back to our full potential in the body, in the mind. It is really an unburdening of the past and a new beginning.
G	This system feels so rich. You said in the group that people usually live only three or four frequencies of their potential. The beauty of Osho’s work is that he has so much to give, he is so rich, so multidimensional, and I see the same thing in this system.
S	Yes, I feel it too.
G	I feel Osho so much in this system.
S	Yes! That is why I am so happy. It started out from missing him so much and the “transmission of light” is about finding ourselves ? which turns out to be the same as finding him!
G	True. Maybe you have something more to say about this circle and the body/mind?
S	Our bodies are in fact made out of light. Matter is really not so dense. It is really so many light frequencies coming together , crisscrossing each other, and this gives the impression of matter. Our bodies are really made of light. We are in fact vibrating light, already and all the time. And to find that again, to realize it, to become conscious of it, and to include ALL the colors and to make ourselves, as you said, Giri, so rich and complete human beings…… Aura Soma also works with this understanding. This is where Aura Soma and the “transmission of light” meet. What I did, when I energized the colored stones of the “circle of light” was that I also connected them with the space of meditation. That is a difference from the Aura soma frequencies. The frequency gem stones also have the information of the space of meditation.
G	Do you see the difference with or without meditation?
S	Yes. As I am Osho’s disciple, the whole work takes place in the light of meditation. And meditation is in fact the real help. Then we have another circle within the “circle of light”. This is where the crystals come in. This circle of frequencies is called the “Circle of Grace”. It is about our spiritual nourishment.
G	After the circle of light you got the “Circle of Grace”?
S	My own transmission started with the Circle of Grace. And side by side I also received the Circle of light. But my own transmission started with the Circle of Grace.
G	Do you mean, the circle of light is connected to Aura Soma and also to Samathas work? (Samatha created “Lichtwesen” in Germany, which is also working with the 21 light energies). Is that how you mean your own transmission started with the Circle of Grace?
S	Yes. My real feeling of being answered began with the Circle of Grace.
G	You did not feel really answered with the circle of light?
S	Right. My real need was on the spiritual level. It was very beautiful to have the transmission of light happening, very impressive. I had so much insight, so much creativity. I was so amazed about all those frequency paintings I made during that time, because I am not even a painter really. And they were so beautiful. And to energize stones…. It was all so beautiful. But my real need was much deeper. So once the Circle of Grace started being born, then I was feeling that NOW I am coming in tune. So much nourishment!
G	So now tell me about the circle of Grace.
S	The Circle of Grace is within the Circle of Light, and it has 13 different frequencies which are all frequencies to help our spiritual growth. The Circle of Grace is about the spiritual nourishment we need to find our spiritual being. When Osho was in the body, I feel, these frequencies were radiating from him and so deeply nourishing my spirit. Each one of these 13 frequencies has one aspect or one kind of nourishment. I would say that they are nourishment for the spiritual heart. And my feeling is there is a real need to receive these frequencies, to be able to evolve. Whether we receive it through a crystal or…. It is of course much more beautiful to receive them from a living master. But it is something we need to receive, and the Circle of Grace is purely about us being receptive.
G	Purely about us being receptive?
S	There is nothing for us to do there. It is just that we receive. We are being showered. That is why it is called the Circle of Grace. Grace from the beyond….
G	As a session-giver, using the crystals, I am giving sessions to people who do not know anything about spirituality, and I did not explain much about this system or Osho and your work. But they are happy and it works well. It works also on somebody who is not conscious about spiritual thirst.
S	Yes, it does, because in fact we are ALL spiritual beings, whether we know it or not. So it IS nourishment. Maybe somebody who is not aware of his/ her thirst, sooner or later may become aware. Maybe this could help them.
G	And I could say it again: the beauty of this work is that it is not only for seekers. Of course for seekers it is very valuable, but also for somebody who is not aware of it, it helps.
S	Yes, it is really beautiful. It has so much space for everybody - wherever we are, whatever point we are at.
G	Also I could see …like I am aware of my thirst, but my Mom is not aware of it, but she IS thirsty ? and somehow, WE ARE SAME! So I could say also that this is a good tool to meet with “ordinary” people.
S	Yes, it does not make a difference between what kind of people we are. It is really “international”, on all levels. I feel like you that the work with the frequencies is really vast. It is big enough; there is space for everyone.
G	Maybe we can go to the third circle now?
S	The third circle is within the Circle of Light and within the Circle of Grace. It is about our BEING. The deepest part within our selves. The core. The being which is unchanging, always the same. Many of us are not aware of it being there at all. And yet each of us is looking for it in some way or other. This circle has a very beautiful name. It is called: “THE GREAT SWAN ? THE WIND OF THE EAST”. The GREAT SWAN is a symbol for Enlightenment and the WIND OF THE EAST is a symbol of what happens when you meet enlightenment. In the innermost circle of our being is enlightenment. This is what I feel this third circle is about. Our unchanging state of being, which is always and always present and always and always here. And once I heard Osho say -- and it made a very deep impression on me -- you can’t talk about it; you have to give people a taste. And this circle gives you a taste. And then it falls into the place of your own being, which IS there, just most of us are not aware of it. So in this innermost circle we have a very deep feeling of coming home
G	So it is about our being, the frequencies which exist in our being. …. you said that the Circle of Grace is about the spiritual search …. What I want to say is that when I was receiving the frequencies I really did not feel a difference between the second and third circle. Just I felt so good. So maybe you can talk something more about the difference……
S	I feel a difference -- For me the circle of Grace is very divine to receive, so much nourishment, and yet, without knowing the being, I don’t feel complete. I still know that I am missing something. In the third circle I don’t miss anything. In this course, we have gone on a very deep and beautiful journey. Everyday we have gone from the body/mind , through the spiritual heart, to the being. Every day we were in fact reaching to our being. But if you experienced just the Circle of Grace by itself, you would feel that something is missing; you would feel a great longing. The “GREAT SWAN” is really “coming home”. And the “Circle of Grace” is on the way.
G	So in the “GREAT SWAN” we feel content, we feel, now we have reached.
S	Yes. In the center of our being nothing is missing.
G	Even with just one frequency one feels content?
S	Yes, because it reaches to the depth of our being, and at the depth of our being nothing is missing. Yes, there are 9 different frequencies with different “feelings” maybe-- I am not sure, which is the right word-- and yet they are very similar to each other, because they all have that contentedness within them. Whereas in the Circle of Light and the Circle of Grace each frequency is completely and totally different from the other. They don t have any similarities with each other. But in the “GREAT SWAN” all these 9 are one. You can t have one without the other. And then in the middle - in the center within all the three circles - there is one pointed crystal standing. It is called the “PILLAR”. Once we have integrated these three layers of our being (the light, the grace and the great swan) there is the “PILLAR”. Our consciousness stands up. My own experience is that something in me stood up. And it is very awake and can never go back to sleep. That is the pillar of consciousness.
G	Then somehow our being is complete?
S	The recognition of who we are is complete. We are in fact not adding anything. We are just discovering and discovering……
G	It is beautiful. We are already there. We are already Buddha. Just we need to recognize it. Somehow one by one, One aspect By one aspect, One by one. Just we are becoming aware More aware More aware About our being Our Buddha hood. Our Buddha nature.
S	And the beauty of everything, Of ourselves, Of all the life which surrounds us, And how deep life is, And how everything is alive, And how all life has That same Buddha nature. We are becoming aware of it Once we feel it in ourselves.
G	Somehow I experience so much about the beauty of this work. Maybe now we go to a different aspect of this work. I am interested in the potential for combining this work with other ways of working. You said there is so much space in this work, and I experience that also as a body worker: it is so easy to combine with body-work. In my body- work sessions I mainly combine cranio sacral work and massage work. And now I combine these frequencies with cranio and massage one third each. And it fits completely. Sometimes the frequency is more effective than the cranio- work. So much relaxation or … also so much unconscious stuff came up with a frequency. And, as a painter , I would like to experience some of the frequencies around the creative process, how we could make richer around our creativity. And I notice that it is so easy for me to express myself now. Through this process it has become easy to put out what I want, what I feel. I see much space for other work, other therapies. Maybe you can say something more … do you have a vision for your work?
S	This “Art of Awakening” course , this was the first experience of combining Aura Soma, which is an already existing Therapy with the “Transmission of Light”, And it was melting so beautifully into each other. And now through you, Giri, we are discovering that it melts so beautifully with bodywork. And my feeling is that because the “Transmission of Light” is about life it is not a system in fact, it is an expression of life - it has space for everything which is part of life. So I am very excited about what we are going to find out as the work grows, and as we have more and deeper experience. I have another friend also combining this with Cranio and another with Reiki…. My feeling is, it can be helpful in almost every direction. For instance, I have painted with frequencies. And it is so much fun. We painted in the groups with frequencies, and it is amazing how everybody’s creativity is so solid. My feeling is that because the “transmission of light” is just an expression of light -- not more, not less --it has space for everyone and everything.
G	Now would you like to talk about your plans for next year? I understand there is already a group planned?
S	Yes, there are groups planned in Germany. If we are lucky we will have three or four groups in Germany in summertime. I will be very happy to come back to Japan maybe in spring, and I am very happy that you feel to organize a group. Also, I would like to create tinctures and body oils containing the frequencies in the coming year. Another thing I want to do next year, is to start doing research. Because the receiving of the frequencies is complete now. IT IS HERE. We can work with it. Now we can really start research into the depth. What is possible? I think there is so much to discover. For me the Transmission of Light is also very scientific.
G	I feel so too.
S	So I would really like to do research and write down what I find, and make the information available, and pass it on to you and to all the friends, and you pass it on to all your friends…and whoever finds anything is very welcome to join into the discovery.
G	Yes, I can imagine many specialists joining to find more and more, to make this work more and more rich.
S	That would be very beautiful. The other day I was reading in a physics book, and there they were talking about the “natural frequency” of a given object. It is a term in physics. And we have the “Natural Frequency” in the Circle of Grace. So that was such a discovery that physics and the Transmission of Light are talking about the same thing. I am really interested in finding the connection with science. elf. It works.
G	Before we stop I would like to ask one more thing about the other circle you have created, the one about the body. Maybe you can tell something about that.
S	It is called the “healing circle”. Last year there was a new circle being born, which is not part of the Field of Awakening -- the field we are working with in the Transmission of Light. It is about healing, about creating the energy field for a body to be in health. It has 13 different frequencies. Last year some very close friends of mine became very ill, and I was asking and asking, how could they be helped? Medicine could not help them. So the circle was born, and now we will have to learn about it. I have tested it on myself. It works.
G	I am looking forward to learning more.
S	Me too!!
G	Will you have a group about it also?
S	Yes. There is a one week group planned in Germany where the focus will be on experiencing what these frequencies do and how we can help ourselves and others to be perfect health.
G	Perhaps I will come.
S	Yes, that would be very good.
G	Okay, let’s stop here. Thank you, Sampatti
S	Thank you, Giri. It was really beautiful to talk with you.
G	And it was fun also!

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